For Me, Wing Chun has it all…..

The title also of this article say its all, for me, Wing Chun has it all. The martial arts are a purely personal thing for me, there is no such thing as an ‘ineffective’ martial art, Only ineffective practitioners…… The effectiveness of the art depends on two main things,  Preference or Suitability of the Practitioner and their Objectives for doing that martial art. I don’t want to harp on about the ins and out of this but merely want to say why I think Wing Chun has it all……

These days the trend is to fuse martial arts together and produce an entirely new martial there are many reasons for this but again preference, suitability and objective will play a big part, another reason which can be tied in to this is understanding. What is meant by that is that technique in mixed systems are not as fully explored as their traditional roots, traditional fighting arts, will practice and drill the techniques, look at the principles behind them etc. Coming up with Hybrid or mixed arts is not the same as cross training in another art, cross training helps the practitioner get a understanding of the other art and helps him to find answers in his own art posed by that of the cross trained art e.g if you want to know how my Wing Chun will deal with a Thai boxer, rather than sumise, I will go and train with a Thai Boxer. This is not the same as incorporating that art within yours, then it becomes Hybrid or Mixed Martial Art.

By cross training you get a good understanding of other arts and this allows you to look deeper into your own art and develop your own rather than dilute it. A good example of the above would student A (who will remain nameless) would turn up every week and train in Wing Chun and every new technique he would say ‘I wouldn’t do that, I’d do this’ and then demonstrate something different from a different and totally dismissing the original technique. How can you make an informed opinion on any technique when you haven’t a) Made an attempt to understand the technique or b) Drilled the said techniques or applied to different situations? What is worse is that have people incorporating them into arts this way.

I do prefer to cross train, from this I have not found an art to which Wing Chun does not have the answer to, no matter what, I have found Wing Chun

I will end with a disclaimer: This article is my viewpoint and MY viewpoint only, I only merely post this for you to READ, I seek not to rubbish any other arts or any other people…… If you wish to comment please bear in mind this is my viewpoint only and I DO NOT wish to enforce this on anyone at all….


How to progess in Wing Chun?

How many times have returned from class dejected and down and thinking ‘I am not progressing in wing chun’. You have been practicing, you have thought about the forms, practiced on the dummy but you feel you are just not making any progress.

There are a few fundamental things you need to ask, Is it your Instructor?, Is it your fellow Students?, you don’t like the club setup you are training in? Whilst you may ask those questions and they may have a bearing on them, your progression in Wing Chun is down to one thing and one thing alone. YOU

There is a simple Formula for progression in any Martial Art let alone Wing Chun and that is:

Attend          – Turn up for Class

Attention     – Listen and Pay Attention..

Activity        – Train the techniques, principles and drills

Ask               – Ask Questions if needed.


So basically Turn up, Train and Listen and if you need, ask questions. Each one of these elements are down to you and you alone. The most important element is to turn up! If you don’t turn up the rest of the process cannot take place, if there is a breakdown in any of this practice the learning process will not take place and you will not progress.

The Learning Process and the Stages of Learning

A famous Author of the self-improvement classic ‘The New Psycho-Cybernetics – The Original Science of Self-Improvement’,  Maxwell Maltz, said there is an explanation of what he calls the four stages of learning.

Unconscious Incompetence
Conscious Incompetence
Conscious Competence
Unconscious Competence

As you look at these stages you can see the mental progression the student goes through. One progresses from struggling to execute or understand a technique right through being able to execute and understand without giving it much thought. The last level of “Unconscious Competence” could be described as a “conditioned reflex” to incoming threats and your counter just happens without you giving much thought.

In order to build this reflex it takes time, patience and effort and this is where the saying ‘Hard Work Beats Talent’ comes into play.


In Wing Chun there is a definite systematic approach to progression, Firstly the ‘Seeds’ of the art are sewn in Siu Lim Tao 小念头 (Meaning: Little Idea) built on in Chum Kiu 寻桥(Meaning: Seeking Bridge) and then finally polished and sharpened in Biu Gee 镖指 (Meaning: Darting Fingers). Each form adding different elements to your WIng Chun and each pushing your further to a goal.

After progression from the first three Empty Hand forms we then have three forms involving apparatus and\or weapons and they are Muk Yan Jong 木人桩 (Meaning: Wooden Man Dummy), Luk Deem Boon Kwan 六点半棍 (Meaning: Six and Half point Pole) and Baat Cham Dao 八斬刀 (Meaning: 8 Slashing Knives).

The Wooden Dummy Form can be introduced earlier but only if a solid foundation and understanding of Siu Lim Tao and Chun Kiu is gained.


We must not rush this process and to expect progression outside of it would be unrealistic and make your wing chun ‘Incomplete’. The one huge conclusion we must draw is that ultimately your progression through the Wing Chun is down to you and if you don’t attend class there is no point. you can only gain so much learning online but ultimately you need a live partner for full progression. If your training is not allowing progression then change it, whatever element you think is lacking, change it! But it is only YOU that can change it.


Wing Chun – Gong Lik and Fa Ging

Wing Chun – Gong Lik is an abstract theory. We can say to a person that they have a deep level of Gong Lik when they are skilled at something. It does not have to be martial arts but it can relate to other things as well such as a chef, carpenter, or mason. The idea is to have accuracy of position, stability, and attention to detail. In Wing Chun, the most important aspect of Gong Lik is what is known as elbow energy.

This energy keeps the elbow in from of the body for protection. From the elbow the energy is transferred up to the forearms, Tan Sau is the best example of this as it is the first defensive action in Siu Lim Tao.Therefore, your strength must be enough to keep stability and accuracy of position to protect yourself.

There are 3 major points to develop Gong Lik.

  1. You must keep your whole body and mind Relaxed.
  2. No part of your body should move other than your hands. The shoulders, head, and legs does not move in the first part of the form.
  3. Try to do the movements as slowly as possible…

Fa Ging (Power Development) – the second part of Siu Lim Tao is to learn how to use strength. How does one know when to use strength? Simple use it when you need it. When you do not need it don’t use it. Never waste time and energy.

I know this sounds confusing. But think of your punch as an iron chain attached to an iron ball. The object of the strike is to hurt the opponent inside of their body. It takes time to develop this type of strength but once you get it, you will be able to use it in many different ways.

Normally the application of strength begins within inches of the opponent. Hence the 1 and 3 inch punch begins to develop. Sifu Kwok always told me, ” When you use your Fa Ging in combination with Biu Ma, which is later discovered in Chum Kiu, one will be very powerful

The Third Part of Siu Lim Tao contains all the basic hand positions and trains basic skill. The basic hand positions are Tan Sao (opening hand), Bong Sao (wing hand) and Fuk Sao (resting hand). There is an old saying, “If you are good at Tan, Bong, and Fuk people will listen to you.”

So you must have correct position of each Sao Know the application of each and know how and when to use them Know how to use the energy, timing, and position And be able to handle the opponent as their hand changes position This is further developed through Chi Sao training.

A final point to consider is your stance. Your body should remain level and do not move up and down. Relax and let the energy sink to your Dantien ( the point just below your navel where Chi/Qi is stored). The weight of your body should be on your upper thigh and the back should be straight with the shoulders back. Do not hunch forward, it will only block your lungs. -Master Samuel Kwok

Commons Reasons Why You’ll Fail in a Streetfight

Surviving a street fight takes more than just martial arts skills. Street Fighting is a com . There are no rules, no referees, no barred techniques, no Ring and you will most likely lose.

Here are a few good reasons for failing in a street fight.

1. You let your attacker get in First!

Martial arts teaches you to receive an incoming attack, unfortunately, in reality, that doesn’t work. In street fighting, it is a mistake to wait for someone to attack you first. You have no idea what your attacker is capable of, he could be faster, stronger or have had a higher degree of training. Mainly however, chances are he will have more experience in these situations than you and allowing him to initiate will often mean you having to react faster than his attack …….. So letting him strike first can be a mistake, a sometimes fatal mistake

2. You don’t get away from the situation.

No one likes disrespect but letting it escalate to a fight means you are feeding your ego. All you have to do is walk away. If a person says hurtful things and curses, leave. You cannot be hurt if you are not there. Yes, he might think you are a coward, but who cares. Don’t let the words of a jumped up ignoramus change the course of your life…

3. You make a decision based on looks and appearance.

You cannot tell what a person is capable of just by looking at them or can you tell what weapon they have on their person. Fighting or Martial Ability is not based on looks neither is mental state, this person could be carrying a weapon. There are some scary stuff out there these days and judging by the crime figures, folk are not afraid to use them. Judging on appearances can very often lead you to mis-judge a situation. For example you feel less threatened if the person is smaller….. Treat every person as though they want your life….

4. Allowing your attacker to get too close.

We’ve all seen it, two men throwing insults, shouting getting right in your face and you end up in a face to face stand off. This is a pretty ridiculous situation to be in as you leave yourself open to a sucker punch. What is worse however your attention is drawn to your attacker and not the surrounding environment. Keep them at a fair distance, say at arms length this allows you to deter the attacker and see what is around you. This is the principle of the fence devised by Geoff Thompson.

5. You think that you should fight fair.

Whilst Dojo/Kwoon etiquette teaches you fairness in fighting your attacker will not. Attackers often strike at opportune moments or put themselves in an advantageous position. They may have a weapon or mates waiting in the wings either way they will try and win at any cost. You should be ready for anything and also ready to do anything to survive. There’s an old saying ‘If you find yourself in a fair fight, you are doing something wrong….’

6. You allowed yourself to fight in the first place.

Fight prevention is betting than allowing your self to get into the situation in the first place. You didn’t back down or walk away, you are soon to be in a fight…

If you are fighting, there’s a bloody good chance you will loose somehow…. You may win the altercation but you could be arrested, you could pick an injury up (a serious one if he has a weapon), you could end up seriously injuring your attacker….

Simple fact is that no one really wins in a fight… The chances of you coming out of the situation with a ‘Total Victory’ are slim, factors affecting the outcome occur before during AND after the fight. One way or another, theres a good chance you will loose…

The Maxims Of Wing Chun

Wing Chun Kuen Kuit are “Words of Wisdom” which capture in poetic terms the finer attributes of Wing Chun Kung Fu. “Kuen Kuit” is Cantonese for “martial sayings” or “fighting songs.” Chinese martial arts employ Kuen Kuit as concise, rhythmic verses which present a method or philosophy of a style. Even among competing Wing Chun traditions, many sayings are recognized and shared. One significant proverb cites, “Loy Lau Hoi Sung, Lut Sau Jik Chung.” This means: “Retain what’s coming in; Send off what’s retreating; Rush in upon loss of hand contact.” Regardless of the Wing Chun tradition, this advice bridges many differences and defines one of the most important strategies of the art.

The original Wing Chun Kuen Kuit are believed to descended from an ancient, oral tradition, and reportedly were connected to southern Chinese secret societies of the nineteenth century. Moy Yat wrote, “It was during the ching dynasty that many of the proverbs were part of secret codes and rituals developed by the rebels dedicated to overthrowing the Manchus.” Over the passing years, unrelated or inapplicable sayings were eventually discarded, the remaining few are described as being “truly intrinsic” to Wing Chun Kung Fu.

“Wing Chun Chuen Jing Tung” is an important proverb usually displayed in the traditional Wing Chun school. This refers to the genuineness of the martial art and reads, “Wing Chun authentically passing down.” This means passing on the true system of Wing Chun “unchanged by your own ideas.” Other well known proverbs cite: Kuen Yau Sum Faat (The punch starts from the heart); Ying Da Juck Da, But Ying Da, But Ho Da … (Strike when you should, Do not strike when you should not …); Chew Ying Joi Ying (Face toward and chase the opponent); Chum Jong Sau Jone (Sink the elbow, protect the center)4; Guan Mo Leung Heung (The staff doesn’t make two sounds), etc.

Wing Chun’s Traditional Rules of Conduct and the popular sayings above may be easily recognized. Others have been preserved based upon the discretion of Augustine Fong, and these originally appears in Randy William 6 book set. There are maxims, training proverbs and sayings for all Wing Chun forms. The majority of these are genuine, artistic commentaries on Wing Chun boxing. It may be noticed some verses are similar to training proverbs presented in the Chinese Internal Arts. Thus, “People do not know the extent of my skills, but I know their abilities,” has been attributed to Yang Lew-Shan: “The theory of Tai-Chi is that nobody knows you, only you know them.” This is a popular saying, as are those which mention invisible techniques such as the famed Mo Ying Gerk (No Shadow kick).

While masters of self-defense declare that real experience is the best teacher, Wing Chun proverbs do excel as wonderful reminders and clues to the mastery of the martial art. These poetic stanzas preserve a secret Kung Fu tradition, a legacy which can be rendered in beautiful Chinese calligraphy. Wing Chun Kuen Kuit are treasures waiting to be discovered; they remain an outstanding contribution to the world of Chinese martial arts.

Traditional Wing Chun Rules of Conduct

– Remain disciplined – Conduct yourself ethically as a martial artist.

– Practice courtesy and righteousness – Serve the society and respect your elders.

– Love your fellow students – Be united and avoid conflicts.

– Limit your desires and pursuit of bodily pleasures – Preserve the proper spirit.

– Train diligently – Maintain your skills.

– Learn to develop spiritual tranquility – Abstain from arguments and fights.

– Participate in society – Be moderate and gentle in your manners.

– Help the weak and the very young – Use martial skills for the good of humanity.

– Pass on the tradition – Preserve this Chinese art and rules of conduct.

Maxims of Wing Chun

– Retain what comes in, send off what retreats. Rush in on loss of hand contact.

– Do not be lax when your opponent is not advancing.

– Once your opponent moves, his center of gravity changes.

– Make the first move to have control. Attack according to timing.

– Timing is achieved through practice.

– A strong attitude and posture gives an advantage over your opponent.

– Being alert and adapting to the situation allows maximum results for minimum effort.

– The body follows the movement of the hands. The waist and the stance move together.

– Complement the hands with posture to make good use of the centerline.

– The eyes and the mind travel together, paying attention to leading edge of attack.

– Charge into the opponent. Execute three moves together.

– Strike any presented posture if it is there. Otherwise strike where you see motion. Beware of sneak attacks, leakage attacks and invisible centerline attacks.

– Soft and relaxed strength will put your opponent in jeopardy.

– Coordinate the hands and feet. Movement is together.

– Do not take risks and you will always connect to the target.

– Have confidence and your calmness will dominate the situation.

– Occupy the inner gate to strike deep into the defense.

– To win in an instant is a superior achievement.

– The Yin Yang principle should be thoroughly understood.

– The theory of Wing Chun has no limit in it applications.

– Be humble to request your teacher for guidance.

– Understand the principles for your training.

– Upon achieving the highest level of proficiency, the application of techniques will vary according to the opponent.

Wing Chun Training Proverbs

– There are not many sets of training exercises in Wing Chun. They are easy to learn but to master them requires determination.

– Learning the usual ways will allow later variations.

– Short arm bridges and fast steps requires practicing the stance first.

– Siu Lim Tau mainly trains internal power.

– Lon Sau in Chum Kiu is a forceful technique.

– Bui Jee contains life saving emergency techniques.

– The Wooden Man develops use of power.

– Fancy techniques should not be used in sticky hand practice.

– Sticky leg practice is inseparable from the single leg stance.

– The steps follow turning of the body like a cat.

– The posture complements the hands to eject the opponent.

– The Six and a Half Point Staff does not make more than one sound.

– The Eight Cut Sword techniques have no match.

– The thrusting and fast attacks are well suited for closing in.

– Eyes beaming with courage can neutralize the situation.

– Unknown techniques are not suitable for training practice.

– Those who completely master the system are among the very few.

Seventeen Keys to Wing Chun

– Be ferocious when clashing.

– Be fast with your fist.

– Be forceful when applying power.

– Be accurate with timing.

– Be continuous when applying Fan Sau.

– Do not use all your strength.

– Protect your own posture.

– Be alert with your eyes.

– Unite your waist and stance.

– Coordinate your hands and feet.

– Movements must be agile.

– Comprehend the principles of Yin and Yang.

– Remain calm.

– Be steady with your breathing and strength.

– Sink your inner chi.

– Be commanding with your fighting demeanor.

– Be quick to end the fight.

(Excerpt from Everything Wing Chun)

Biu Jee – Wing Chun’s Insurance Policy

Wing Chun does not lend itself to athletics (sport) or aesthetics, and although some do not teach it that way, it is, by purpose, a method of physical self-defence. Some instructors opt to teach other, more traditional aspects, such as health benefits and the spiritual side of the art. So depending on what you want from it or how it is taught, determines what you get from it. Although I have belief in it philosophical and spiritual side, for me it is a fighting system and it is taught as such. Nowhere in all the Wing Chun forms is the fighting element more evident than in the 3rd empty hand form in the system, Biu Jee.

An Overview of the Wing Chun Forms (Empty Hand)

Siu Lim Tao Form

Each empty hand Form in Wing Chun has its own purpose. For instance the first form, Siu Lim Tao (小念頭, Meaning:Little or Small Idea) is the first form of the system. Siu Lim Tao is split into 3 sections and each section has its own aim. The first section deals with developing the basic strength in the Wrist and Elbow and is often performed quite slow to concentrate and build up energy, a bit like dynamic tension. The second section deals with the execution and release ofthe power developed in section one;it is executed in an ‘On/Off’ manner. The best way to describe this is when you punch a target, whilst traveling to the target the muscles are relaxed and the power is ‘Off’, just before impact the muscle tense for a split second. This is when the power is ‘On’. The third section is for training of correct position of basic hand technique; you must concentrate on executing each movement’s position correctly.

Chum Kiu Form

The second form, Chum Kiu (尋橋, Meaning:Seeking the Bridge), like Siu Lim Tao,is split into unique sections. The first section teaches the student how to use techniques in conjunction with shifting (turning the body) whilst developing power from the hip. This is something that is not seen in Siu Lim Tao as Siu Lim Tao is performed in a stationary position. The second Section deals with mobility; here the basic stepping and shifting are used in conjunction with the hand techniques as well as being introduced to the basic kicking and elbow techniques. The aim of the form is to use techniques with mobility to ‘bridge’ the gap between yourself and the opponent, all the kicks are executed below the waist and can be used to intercept other kicks, stop advancing opponents (aggressively or defensively) or be used and an harassment from which to execute other attacks. In conjunction with the forms, students learn drills and application which their understanding of the forms and help develop solid fighting ability and solid self-defence. After completing these two forms as well as drills and application the student should be able to pretty look after himself quite well and be a competent fighter. But what if, in combat, a mistake is made; you are caught off guard or get injured. You need something up your sleeve, an insurance policy.

Biu Jee – The Insurance Policy

Biu Jee (鏢指) literally translates as ‘Thrusting or Darting Fingers’ and is the final empty hand form taught in Wing Chun. Traditionally it is said it said that Biu Jee is only taught to the most loyal of students as the techniques are so deadly that you can kill people with one blow. Well, simply that’s a pile of Dog poo!! (I could use stronger words)!! Statements like this are just fabricated by some instructors to attract inexperienced, gullible students and to make them stand out from other clubs. Any Wing Chun instructors out there that lay such statements I would advise to treat with dubious care.There is, and should be, no Secrecy in Wing Chun.

Biu Jee is the last empty handed form, as stated previously by the time we reach this form we should be at a competent level and pretty much be able to look after ourselves. By that I mean we should be able to execute and apply techniques to most real combat situations and react to an attack automatically with little thought. The assumption here is that we KNOW the attack is coming and we have full control of our position and we have not made a mistake either by over committing or incorrect application of technique. No matter how skilled we are,mistakes can often still be made.You can get caught off guard or execute a counter attack incorrectly, Biu Jee gives us an idea ofwhat we could in these circumstances.

The form builds on the knowledge and techniques gained from previous forms. Footwork, Huen Ma (circle step) is introduced building on Chum Kiu footwork. This allows you to step around any obstacles e.g. a leading leg, get behind the obstacle and gain control or execute trips or takedowns. It also allows you to fully change direction in the event of an unexpected attack or counter. Aggressive downward elbow techniques (Kop Jarn) are introduced, these can be used as an outright attack or as an escape route should the arms become pinned or engaged. We are also shown the thrusting finger technique also as an attack or escape route and where power is concentrated to the end of the finger tips. Basically a whole range of techniques designed as ‘Emergency’ reactions to help you tip the balance back in your favour when things aren’t so favourable.

Biu Jee completes the empty handed forms by building and perfecting techniques and using them in whole different manner. It is the intent of techniques that differs from previous forms. The use of power is further explored to produce powerful blows over very short distance, we also take into account the areas targeted when executing technique. No longer are the strikes aimed at the generic areas such as head or body but narrowed down to specific, more delicate areas like the throat, the eyes, or the nose. The purpose of the form is to cause harm and neutralise attackers in unfavourable situations, the more you understand about Biu Jee, it is here you see the nature of Wing Chun takes a more sinister turn. The student goes from learning and understanding standard techniques to execution and application to cause maximum injury. In any situation you have to ask ‘What if this happens?’, ‘How do I deal with this situation?’ in combat nothing is straight forward and things don’t always go to plan. Even Bruce Lee mused at one point ‘It is only a fool who predicts the outcome of a fight before the fight has happened’, Biu Jee tries to answer these questions and give you another way.

First we drill the technique, then we learn all about their application then we pressure test. This is important as it gives the opportunity see how things MAY work. One thing bear I in mind is in the safety of the Kwoon or Dojo you don’t have the fear of getting hurt or the uncertainty of the incoming attack. The only way to familiarise oneself with that kind of fear is to be in a situation that induces it. Something we should try to avoid really. Whichever way you look at it violence and self-defence is a very nasty business these days there is ‘No honour amongst thieves’, gone are the days of one on one, society has basically deteriorated. Biu Jee is a very useful ‘Sidearm’ to have in combat situations and it’s a sad fact that the only way to beat violence is by avoidance or if you have no choice, use ‘Bigger’ violence. Biu Jee, with its vicious technique and combat philosophy give you a ‘Bigger’ violence.

When someone performs the moves in Biu Jee with the correct intent and execution, it can have an effect on the nature and mentality of the student. The purpose of the very last movements of the form is to bring the person back to a normal mental state and re-address the balance; other theories suggest it is to simply regain the centreline. The first theory would make a bit more sense because when concentrating power into such technique can place your head in a very dark place. You need those tranquil movements to bring you back to normal. It is not too difficult to see why it is a good ‘Insurance policy’ and how it fits in with the progression of the Wing Chun system. Without proficiency in the first two empty hand forms, Biu Jee is really ineffective. This is why the guidance of a good Sifu (instructor) is essential in this or any other martial art for that matter.

Disabled People and Martial Arts

Recently I heard a few horror stories about the way the disadvantaged people are treated in Martial Arts. One alraming comment ‘to be honest mate, theres now way he can do any good in this martial art, i cannot do anything with him to be honest’. Well if that is the narrow minded belief then I believe disable people do not stand a chance in any activity. But do they?

Adaptation is the key here, because martial arts is such a wonderful thing to do, you can adapt almost any martial art to give the disabled person all the positive effects of martial arts. What most disabled have over most able bodied people is that they have a BIG heart, they are very Brave, just getting out of bed in the morning is testament to this. You probably will not get that level of courage in able bodied people.

Just because a person cannot move a specific way or do a specific movement does not rule the learning of the art to the disabled student instead he will concentrate on areas he can do. He may not be able to kick well but he can punch etc….. Not all martial arts concentrate wholly on the physical aspect there is also a lot to be gained from the philosophical element of the art, so as you can see there is no such thing as ‘I cannot do anything with him’.

The vast majority of disabled people dont want special treatment, dont want you to feel sorry for them, all they ask is your acceptance and to be treated as anyone else. Thats not a lot to ask for anyone is it?

Chris Crudelli Seminar

The Lads From Stockton and Chris Crudelli
A review of Chris’s Seminar at Warrior Wing Chun

If you don’t already know, Chris is famous for many hit TV Series such as

‘Mind Body Kick Ass Moves’
‘Kick Ass Miracles’
‘Kick Ass in a Crisis’

And best selling author of ‘The Way of the Warrior’, not to mention being one of the most prolific Martial Arts Master in the country.

This was a great way to meet and train with the man himself in a one off seminar especially for Warrior Wing Chun. An opportunity that was not to be missed.
A great seminar was has and was a great experience for participants. Chris put the participants through their paces with a good combination of techniques and exercise that Chris has picked up from his travels.

Some great empty hand, weapons and disarming techniques coupled with Chris’s enigmatic teaching style made the seminar a great success.
A big Shout out to Stockton Kickboxing guys, Master Paul Monty, Ady ALderson. Dean Williams of PKA Kickboxing and Warren Hunt from the Eclipse Gym in Walsall but mostly to the Warrior Students who showed massive support. Last but not least big thanks to Chris Crudelli firstly for a great Seminar.
Have you had Chris Crudelli at your club? Perhaps you could tell us about your experience? Please feel free to leave a comment…..